Sarah Hatton

Quinn: Hello and welcome back to Pictorial on Relay FM. I’m Quinn Rose and I didn't go to art school, but I still love learning about art and new artists. 

Betty: Hi, and I'm Betty. I also didn't go to art school, but I am probably going to be heading back into an art gallery to be a gallery guide again soon, but you know, since that hasn't happened yet I'm still just looking at art on the internet.

Quinn: In the meantime, though, today we are doing a fun little episode all about a contemporary artist named Sarah Hatton. And I have the best news for you, Betty: she’s Canadian.

Betty: Woohoo! Representation!

Quinn: So I'm going to tell the story of how I learned about Sarah Hatton with the last piece that I'm going to share today, but we're just going to go through three of her pieces and just talk about some really cool conceptual contemporary art. There's not much in terms of kind of life story that we're going to get into. Cause similar with other working artists that are still contemporary to today that we've talked about in the past, the focus tends to be a lot less about their life story and a lot more about their current work since their life story is still unfolding. But I will say, so she was actually born in the UK. And she was raised in Barbados and Canada, she says. But she now lives and works in Chelsea, Quebec. And she, you know, does a lot of work that is very grounded in her life as a Canadian. And she's especially really interested in works around climate change and has done a lot of conceptual art that focuses on the ideas of climate change and the human contribution to climate change and what we can and must do in order to mitigate the future harm that is coming our way because of mistreatment of the climate, as well as a really deep interest in human nature. Both in terms of how humans interact with, you know, ecological nature, but also in questions about morality, mortality, all sorts of really cool stuff.

Betty: Oh, that's really interesting. I do like that she's kind of a similar Canadian to me where, you know, she was born in a different country, grew up in a different place and you know, now lives in Canada. That seems to be a lot of Canadian’s stories. So that sounds great to me. And yeah, as someone who professionally works in building architectural environments, I'm definitely very interested in doing what we can to mitigate climate change. Cause it's really important.

Quinn: We're actually gonna dive right into the first piece we’re talking about today, which is both a piece that she is at this moment best known for, and is also one of her most iconic pieces in relation to the climate and with nature. And that is called Bee Works. So in the show notes, there is a link to her website page of the Bee Works where you can see photographs of each one. And so I was wondering if you could just give me your first reaction just of these images, the kind of things that you're seeing and your first initial reactions to them.

Betty: There are square pictures that are in black and white. They're all, so far from what I can see, they're all have circles and they all seem to have some sort of geometric pattern. It kind of reminds me of like either fractals or like mandalas where there's like these just concentric circles or these very swirly organized patterns. And they're all called a circle 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Quinn: So all of these images are photos of the larger works. Each one of these works is actually—you know, not like gigantic, but they're actually quite large. And part of the reason for that is because they are made out of bees. So it's a white background, but all of the patterns that are in black and from a far enough distance away look like they're just painted on with black are actually made out of dead bees.

Betty: Wow. Yeah, I just clicked on one of them. I just clicked on circle one and I looked at a closeup and I see dead bees. And like, I just very, I'm like—I don't really like bugs in general. So like, there was a moment where I'm just like, oh! I mean, it's very interesting, but I did not expect that.

Quinn: Yeah, it is—if you don't want to see gross bugs, do not click on the closeups of these pictures, absolutely. Because when you get close up, you can see the bees obviously, and it is not the greatest thing to see. But the reason that she made these is because she's actually a beekeeper herself. And when three of her hives died because of exposure to pesticides she started using the dead bees that she had as art and these patterns are all very much inspired by different monoculture crops. And specifically like she calls out the Fibonacci spiral that you can find in the head of a sunflower. And they're all different patterns, but they're all very detailed. And almost some of them even almost create optical illusions because of the way—they’re very intense patterns. And very clearly manmade patterns, in the statement about humans basically using and abusing and ultimately destroying a natural in their quest to dominate over nature. And specifically that what she is calling out here, like she has a very specific political aim with this is she is advocating for the banning of neonic pesticides, which are nicotine based. And they are ultimately fatal to bees because they affect bees’ nervous systems and mean that they can’t get home to their hives, which ultimately will kill the hives. And so they're, they're actually banned in the EU and she's advocating for them to be banned in North America as well. And when she started doing this work, they were originally only going to have a couple and they were much smaller, but when she started doing this work and getting attention for it, beekeepers started sending her their dead bees. And so she's now made these, tons of these works. I think there might be 10 total all in all, of these different designs and yeah, they're just made out of thousands of thousands of bees from different beekeepers.

Betty: Wow. Yeah I definitely remember like hearing in the news like in the last few years and I think also this year that like, there have been a lot of bees just dying en mass. And like, I'm obviously not an expert, but like, from what I've heard, it's not just the bees and the honey, like the products they make. They also pollinate a lot of other plants. So there’s devastating impacts to not just bees, but also like other crops and just nature in general. So this is, this is definitely a really important issue. 

Quinn: I have a similar reaction to you when I look closely at these where it’s deeply macabre to see all of these dead bees. And it's so sad because you're like, why show us all of these horrifying bug carcasses? But that's also I think kind of the point is to be confronted with it in a way that like, you hear like the bees are dying and you're like, wow, that's really sad. That sucks. I don't support bees dying. But I think that creating the artwork in this way, where then you can see the dead bees in front of you hits very differently than just hearing about it in the abstract.

Betty: That's for sure. Well, and I think the reason I kind of bring up, there’s these other, or it seems like there's these other effects and impacts of bees is like, I feel like there's always a certain type of people probably don't care that bees are dying or think, oh, well they're just bugs. Like, you know, okay. Like if they're dead, how does that affect us? And I guess it's, it's pretty important for people to know that it does affect us. But I guess also now that I think about it, I mean, it should also be important for us to just care about the wellbeing of bees, because even though they're bugs, they're still living creatures and they shouldn’t just be poisoned to death.

Quinn: Also, yeah that. Anyway, that is the work that she is most famous for. But I also want to talk about a couple more that are less about nature and the climate and more about a couple other things that she has worked on to get a different sense of some of these. And the next one I want to talk about is called Detachment. So there also will be a link to images of these as well. And I'm going to ask you again, just to get your initial reactions to these before I explain the backstory of them.

Betty: Sure. So this is a page called Detachment and so initially I see a bunch of pictures that are, they look like they're black backgrounds with dots on them and lines connecting the dots with words on them. And since last time it was helpful for me to click on one of them I'm going to. I guess it kind of looks, it looks like constellations almost, like a constellation of stars in the sky, but I do notice that the names of these artworks or images are like Ypres, Vimy, Passchendaele. And as far as I know those were battle locations in World War I. And I don't know about like other countries and like what they, like how World War I is taught. But I do know that as Canadians, like these battles and these, and sort of our involvement in World War I, as far as I know, a lot of people I know who were taught history in Canada, it is kind of deeply entrenched in like teaching us about these these battles that happened.

Quinn: You hit the nail so hard on the head.

Betty: Oh, great!

Quinn: So here's the backstory of this. These are constellations that represent the night sky the first night after the fighting concluded in each of these battles and these ones were chosen, these five battles, because they were monumental for Canadian soldiers in World War I. And they were ones that Canadians fought in. And what they’re are actually made out of is brass fastener pins that held together the military service records of every single Canadian World War I veteran. Because when they started—when the National Canadian Archives started the digitization process, they had to remove 640,000 of these fastener pins from the records. And they, and so they worked in collaboration with Sarah Hatton to turn these into an art piece. Every single one of those fasteners is actually stamped with a star. Like was stamped with a star when they were used as fasteners. And obviously a gold star is a very common piece of military symbolism and is used in several different ways in the military. So that's why she decided to do these representations of constellations. And to turn these hundreds of thousands of brass pins into these actual recreations of those night skies, and she has then labeled every single constellation that these soldiers actually would have seen. I really recommend checking out both the images of these art pieces and also the video where she talks about it. She describes it as “the sky that no doubt the surviving soldiers would have been looking up at.” And there is something about this that makes me really emotional. She talks about it as a tribute to remembrance and to peace and something about just looking at these, this representation of history by using a physical piece of that history and, and deciding to turn that into something that says “look up at the sky, this is what we were seeing when the fighting was over.”

Betty: Yeah, that honestly, that's really powerful because I think the fact that she used all these pins, it reminds you that, of like the individual people and lives that were involved, even though obviously there was, but like, we often talk about these like wars in like, you know, generic historic terms and it's like the individual people are often not really addressed. And then also just recreating that night sky. It almost positions you and puts you—or not almost like, pretty much directly like puts you in their shoes and then their view of what they would have seen. So it kind of like, it humanizes that experience for me, I think, not just of the individual dots, but also just recreating what it would've looked like for the soldiers.

Quinn: I would really love to see this in person, because even seeing just the images online just makes me think like, oh my God, I think it would be so amazing to be able to be there right in front of this, and to really soak in and be able to look close up at each one of these pins that represented a real person. And I don't tend to be super interested in military history or stuff like that. It's not really my thing. But this level, this is what art is supposed to do. It brings it so close. And like you were saying, like it individualizes it in a way that makes me so much more interested in seeing this and experiencing this and being able to make a connection with this piece of history, that if you asked me 20 minutes ago or whatever, I would say, like, I don't have a connection to really.

Betty: It's true. Because like I do kind of like, as somebody who I moved to Canada myself halfway through my life, like I am aware of the definitely aware of these battles. But unlike some of my friends who actually have grandparents, who were involved or fought in the war and some died in the war., I don't directly have that connection, but this, this makes me feel like I do. And do you know where they're located? Like, could I go see this somewhere?

Quinn: I don’t know. 

Betty: I'm going to try to find out and if it's close maybe, I don't know, maybe I'll go see it.

Quinn: One other cool piece of this, which actually relates—even though I said, oh, this isn't really about like her interest in nature or whatever, but it, there is actually a theme in some of her other works that runs through this as well, which is the reclamation of things that would otherwise go in the trash most likely. Where it's like, oh, all of these pins are now a piece of art. Like she's done other works of art where she turned like straws into a sculpture. And there is this theme of taking materials that might otherwise just be tossed away because they don't have a practical purpose anymore and turning them into a transformative piece of art.

Betty: That's great. And also it, it speaks to one of the principles of sustainable use of materials, which is to find ways to reuse existing materials instead of, you know, instead of having to mine and source new ones. 

Quinn: Absolutely. Now, the last piece that I want to talk about today is actually how I found this artist. And it's because she made a TikTok video about it that went, that was fairly popular. And so I ended up coming across it and I'm actually just going to send you this video. And I just want us to watch this together. So click on that and then pause. And then I'm going to, we're going to do a 1, 2, 3, and then watch it together. Okay. 3, 2, 1, play. 

Sarah Hatton, on video: This is the fun part. This is where I get to test the sculpture to see if it works. So I'm seeing a really black heart. That's it, it’s just a heart. I'm going to move in a little closer, you’ll stop me, right? Okay.

Betty: Oh my God.

Sarah Hatton, on video: It's still just a heart.

Betty: Oh my God. I’m…

Sarah Hatton, on video: Oh, this is freaky.

Other person, on video: Whoa!

Betty: Why…

Quinn: So that's the video. So anyone who didn't get the chance to watch that themselves, what basically happens is you just have a woman standing there and she's standing in front of a black wooden hear that's about the size of her head, I would say. And there are three large arrows that are going through the heart. So they are pointing at her. The camera turns the perspective and you see that what she can see is just the black heart. She can't, if you're looking at it straight on you can't see the arrows, they're all just black. And then she tested it by walking closer and closer to see if she can see them. And then the person who's filming has to warn her that she is about to walk into an arrow because she still can't see it right in front of her face. But then the second you turn to the side, the perspective changes. And of course you can clearly see the arrows, because they're against a white background.

Betty: Looking at this I'm just like, oh my God. Like in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm pretty sure she didn't hurt herself. Or at least I hope not. But I was like on the edge of my seat, why are you doing this?

Quinn: It doesn’t—cause if you were just watching her walk towards the arrows from the side perspective, you'd be like, why is that a woman walking towards an arrowhead? She's clearly gonna hurt herself. But then when you see it from her perspective that she just can't see it. So cool. This piece is called Love Is Blind and it's very simple, but so clever. And I think that it has different interpretations, which is cool. The one that she presents as the primary interpretation is it is a representation of love bombing, which is just used by  tons of different people, including in cults as well as just sort of run of the mill toxic relationships, where when you enter a relationship with someone, be it romantic or platonic, you just get a ton of love and emotion and like, really really strong closeness in a way that is completely overwhelming. And then that disarms you and you can sometimes not see red flags or not see these major red flags as they develop. But if you were a person on the outside of that relationship, you could clearly look at it and be like, oh, there's a really dangerous thing happening there, but when you're inside it looking straight on, you can't see it.

Betty: Yeah. When I saw the title and thought about it, I was thinking like, is this like a metaphor for how like, love can break your heart? Or like just totally kind of, I guess, be like an arrow flying at your face. Which I'm sure for some people that is literally the experience—or not literally, figuratively, whatever.

Quinn: Hopefully not literally.

Betty: Please, if you entered a relationship into someone and they shot a literal arrow at your head or are about to, please leave. 

Quinn: And I feel like that can be true, that they can also be just like, it doesn't have to be coming from a toxic manipulative person. Sometimes it's just a average relationship that has the same kind of problems where you're not picking up on red flags because you've got those, you know, the rose colored glasses on. And I saw someone else interpreted this as almost the reverse where outside of the relationship, you're just seeing the heart that they're presenting straight onto the world where everything looks good and great. But inside the relationship, things are very toxic. And one and/or both partners is hiding that from other people.

Betty: Oh, that's really interesting.

Quinn: Yeah. I just think it's such, it's one of the coolest pieces of art that I've seen come out in the last couple of years, honestly. Because I do think that it has so many different potential meanings. It can mean different things to different people.

Betty: Yeah. And it's so simple, but I do notice now after seeing three pieces of her work, like all of them are kind of I guess indirectly about killing. 

Quinn: Oh yeah.

Betty: Well, because I did notice in the bee one, there is a, like not only is it dead bees, but there is a circular arrangement she made on a blue background called kill chain, which looks like the target that you would see if you're looking—if you had, if you were holding, I guess, like a rifle or a gun that's aiming at something, that’s the circle you would see. And the only reason I know this is because of playing video games, I've never actually shot a rifle. And so that, you know, that's literally a kill reference. And then the, the war one is, you know, about soldiers being killed. And then this one, she seemed like she almost got killed by an arrow.

Quinn: Yeah. There is definitely a lot of work that deals with mortality, both for humans and for animals.

Betty: Yeah. Well, but like I do think that's compelling. Like it is, it is something that does, you know, that obviously has a big impact to us, our mortality, if not probably some of the biggest impacts. So I think it's probably one of the reasons why these works are so intriguing.

Quinn: I mean, what are humans obsessed with if not for love and death? Money sometimes, but that's just because we had to make something else up that wasn't a love or death to be obsessed with.

Betty: Right. And you know, and sometimes money is used to get more love and maybe prevent death.

Quinn: Yeah, exactly. Hey, we've cracked it.

Betty: Exactly.

Quinn: I do want to end this by just talking a little bit about how she actually made this which is pretty cool because you know, how is it possible that she actually can't see the arrows? You would think like, you gotta have something special going on there. And she does! Everything is painted in Black 3.0 paint, which is the blackest black that exists.

Betty: I have heard about this.

Quinn: Yes, it absorbs 99% of visible light. And as a little fun story, 3.0 exists because of an artist grudge. So there's a contemporary artist named Anish Kapoor. He is very, very successful and he actually obtained a little while back the exclusive rights to use a paint called Vanta Black, or use a color called Vanta Black. Which at the time was the blackest black that existed. And this made a lot of people very mad. Including an artist named Stewart Semple, who was so mad that he worked with scientists to create an even blacker black. And he called this Black 2.0. And he said, when he created it and patented it, I guess, he said that anyone can use it except for Anish Kapoor and anyone who works with him. And then Black 3.0 is kind of the newest iteration of that, so created by Stuart Semple. And so she, in the behind the scenes video where she's talking about both her work and the paint that she made it with that allowed this work to exist, in parts of it she's wearing a t-shirt that says, “I swear I'm not Anish Kapoor.”

Betty: That’s great.

Quinn: Which is just such a delightful little detail. But that's why this work could exist because literally the paint is so dark that it is absorbing so much visible light that it blocks—when you're looking straight on and you don't have a different color to contrast it with, it's just the Black 3.0 on Black 3.0. And you can't even tell how far away something is from your face, because it all just looks like black to you.

Betty: Yeah. That’s really interesting. This also reminds me again of our International Klein Blue podcast, where that was a patented exclusive color. It seems like this is a thing that artists like to do is be like, ooh, I just want to own a color and nobody else could use it.

Quinn: There's so many color beefs out there.

Betty: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I actually do have a YouTube video where I talk about color contrast, but more so in the context of interior design and why it's important to have contrast. Especially when it comes to like, you know, steps and things that you can trip over. And that there's actually formulas in the industry that people use to pick materials on different surfaces so that you can make sure you pick one, like, you know, on a contrasting surface that people can detect. And this helps like people with low vision and just people in general. And yeah, this is interesting because in a way, this black being like really, really black is probably, it probably could work with a lot of other colors to be like an actual good contrasting material or color to be used for these like instances. So, you know, it should be accessible for everyone to use.

Quinn: That's really cool. And that's a good point that like, it potentially has a lot of uses. Unfortunately, as you might imagine at this moment, it is quite expensive. So unfortunately it's probably not going to be able to use more interior design elements at the moment, but I could definitely see a future where it's part of that. And that opens up a lot of possibilities. 

Betty: Yeah. Well that's so interesting. Well, thanks for introducing me to a very interesting artist.

Quinn: Absolutely. And thanks everybody out there for listening to us today. If you want to find all the show notes of everything we talked about, you can find those at relay.fm/pictorial. You can also find us on Twitter or Instagram @PictorialPod. And if you want, you can also find me on Instagram @aspiringrobotfm.

Betty: And you can find me on Twitter or Instagram @articulationsv. And I'm also on YouTube as ARTiculations. And speaking of YouTube, we also have a YouTube channel, Pictorial Podcast, where we usually upload a video version of the audio podcast a few weeks after it's been released. So you can take a look at all the dead bees and constellations and everything else for this episode in a few weeks. 

Quinn: Thanks for listening, art enthusiasts!