Mail Art

Quinn: Hello and welcome back to Pictorial on Relay FM. I'm Quinn Rose. I'm someone who did not go to art school, but apparently I do have a small obsession with art that's sent through the mail. So I hope that's what you're here for today. 

Betty: And I'm Betty. I'm also someone who did not go to art school, but I have been working at an art gallery for the past eight years as a gallery guide. And while I don't have an obsession with art that's sent through the mail, I apparently always talk about stuff that goes on in the gallery that I work in. So today we're covering a topic that was an art exhibition that was at the AGO where I work. And it's an example of what we will speak about today.

Quinn: Yeah everyone drink, we're talking about an exhibit that Betty saw the AGO. And it's so funny how that always happens because half the time they're my topics. And you're like, oh yes, I’ve seen all of these things in person. And I'm like, damn, Art Gallery of Ontario is just really on it.

Betty: It’s true. I mean, we are pretty big and, and like, you know, Toronto is a pretty—I think it's like whenever there's shows that happen, like a traveling exhibition, they usually just do like one stop in Canada and it's Toronto, cause we're the biggest city. So like, if it's like, you know, Picasso or like Van Gogh or whatever like that's well known, it’s the only stop in Canada. So we get everything. Yay.

Quinn: I saw a post recently that said London, New York and Toronto are the same city in different fonts. And I think they're right.

Betty: That’s true.

Quinn: Anyway, our main topic today is about mail art. So you might recall that way back in our, I think it was our very second episode, we talked about postcards as art and this is actually a little different than that. This is both a specific and a broad phenomenon. There is just a general concept of mail art, which is basically any art that is sent through the mail… pretty straight forward. But there is also as kind of a specific historical lineage of sending art through the mail in the United States specifically, I should say, n terms of the stuff that I was looking at, coming out of something called the New York Correspondance School. And then looking at the sort of ebb and flow of the popularity of sending art through the mail and also a little bit of what that looks like today, as the mail is having a bit of a moment.

Betty: I looked up history of the mail art a little bit myself, and I think, yeah, while it does seem to originate from New York or from the US in the 60s, obviously, you know, all around the world, there are postal services and there's various possibly like independent people doing it on their own, or perhaps they were also inspired by the New York School.

Quinn: Yeah. So this was all kind of popularized by this one guy named Ray Johnson. As you said, lots of people do this in lots of different ways, but this was kind of a really big thing for him. He actually started experiments with mail art back in 1943… during World War II, I guess, but yeah. He had a couple of different specific styles that he used. A big thing that he did was putting instructions in the mail and sending it to his friends, who were like “alright” and basically indulged Johnson. And that was something that he really started in full swing in about the mid 1950s. And these are pretty basic instructions. They would say things like, please send this to like “blank” someone else. Please add this something else to it and return it to me. Please do not send to this specific person or a specific kind of person. So they weren't like really advanced things. They were just like really simple stuff that you could easily do in the mail through the postal system. And as I said, like he did this more and more through the 1950s. And then in 1962, an artist named Edward Plunkett coined the term New York Correspondence School, basically to refer to just this one guy again, sending mail to his friends and his friends carrying on the bit.

Betty: So it wasn't actually a school. I totally thought it was like a school, but it's just about this guy doing mail.

Quinn: No, it's just the name of a very specific art movement that was basically like one circle of people. Johnson really liked that name, but he decided to deliberately misspell it. So correspondence is D E N C E, but he spelled it D A N C E… just for fun, because it's a sort of very playful group of people, I guess. And not a lot of people were very prominently associated with this art movement because that really wasn't the purpose of it. The whole point was to be… the whole point was to be simple, was to be playful and to sort of have these egalitarian approach where it was even, where it was equal between pretty much everyone. Obviously there are very minor barriers to sending mail. You have to get a stamp, you have to have some kind of thing to write on and something to write with. But the vast majority of people are able to access these things. And so it's, as we discussed in the postcard episode, it's way more accessible than for example, distributing art through a gallery or other more traditional forms of art showcasing, which are way higher barriers to entry on purpose. So the whole point of this was like, we are basically having fun with this. We are doing all these different things and exchanging art. Johnson specifically said that he found it really interesting because it's about communication specifically. It's about conveying messages to people in a very unique way through the slow written form. And he thought that was a lot of fun to play with obviously, and this is basically how it all went in the 1960s until the 1970s, when the whole movement, I guess you could call it really exploded and expanded far beyond just the idea of the New York Correspondance School and started to include lots of different people all over the place.

Betty: I'm sure he was like inspired by like predecessors before him in a way. Cause yeah like what you describe in what he's doing, it, it seems like it's very like Dada, very Marcel Duchamp, or, you know, that type of spontaneousness like giving instructions to do something. It’s like, you know something that I feel like the Dadaists would do. And again, this whole like dance thing, they just sort of like dance around and do all kinds of random stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense, but, it doesn't have to. And I also think that similar to Dadaists, but also, the fact that like you mentioned, it's like a communication based thing. And so this encourages, or even in many ways requires collaboration between artists. So like, I always really like look looking at works that were collaborations between two or more artists. And like, you don't see that quite yet so often in art galleries, it's usually “this is by Leonardo, this is by van Gogh,” like it's artists working alone. And when you can see these collaborations and when it's a, it's a form of art that makes that very easily done. It's you know, very interesting to me anyway.

Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. The sort of spread of mail art went about as what you would expect, you know, things spread as people share them, as pieces of art in the mail are spread further and further, both sort of the original idea of like sending simple instructions and drawings to each other, to much more elaborate forms of art that are still able to be sent through the mail with basic postage stamps. And this movement kind of culminated in these exhibitions. There were actually a couple of rules to mail art exhibitions. The whole idea was that they should be as open as possible. So sometimes an artist who is sort of a prominent member of this mail art community would hold a mail art show. There’s no jury, there's no entry fee, there’s no censorship and everything that people submit is exhibited. So that seems bold. Cause I feel like things can get out of control, but this is like kind of pre-internet. So there is sort of natural limits to how far things could spread in those days, especially when they don't, this is not like the New York Times holding it. You know, these are basically individual people. You don't get your work sent back, but they'll make a catalog out of everything and everyone who participates get a catalog for free. This sounds like it's a way to lose a lot of money if you're making—I guess it says catalog or documentation. So who knows what that means. But this is not a money making endeavor. And the whole point is, you know, celebration of art and openness, et cetera, et cetera. There was one incident in 1984 when curator Ronnie Cohen was doing an exhibit called Mail Art: Then And Now. And she was actually breaking one of the rules, which was that she was editing some of the materials sent her way, because she wanted to have this historical aspect as well as contemporary aspect. And so she was basically applying this curatorial discretion to it. People got really mad about it because they saw that as violating sort of the tenants of the mail art movement. This caused such a controversy that they were doing a two part panel discussion around it and they were going to sort of debate the issues. She was going to moderate one of those panels and they asked her to step down as moderator and just be a member of the panel instead, and she chose to you leave the event. This is like, obviously caused a lot of conflict and sort of ideological debate and anger within the mail art community. A lot of people were really angry about how had been dominated by the small group of mostly male artists—male mail art. That's not confusing at all.

Betty: Well, I actually, when you first proposed this topic, I had to clarify, I was like mail, like letters, not like a gender.

Quinn: Yeah. I want to talk about all art made by men. That seems like a good idea. 

Betty: Exactly.

Quinn: Yeah. That's the only sort of example of sort of notable conflict within the mail art community, because… since it is such a loosely defined thing, there aren't a lot of like major groundbreaking events. But this was obviously a big ideological thing. And there were lots of different takes on it about censorship, reverse censorship, sexism within the community, like all this different stuff going on. And it definitely had a huge impact in sort of the, what you might consider like a central mail art community. And then of course the internet really kicks in. And so at this point, mail art’s popularity had definitely peaked and while it still existed was a lot less popular than it used to be. We’ll come back to that at the end of the episode. Sort of between these kind of early historical markers of the mail art movement, and the contemporary revival of some of it, there’s obviously been a lot of art shared and you've gotten the chance to—I believe you said you didn't get the chance to actually see it because, because the exhibit had closed, but you got a bunch of press information about this mail art exhibit?

Betty: I did receive a bunch of information about this exhibition. I actually did see it briefly. So shortly before the AGO closed back in March, this exhibition was on. And I went and took a scan of it and I was like, oh, okay, cool. I'll come back to this and take a closer look. And then like two days later, everything closed. And I was like, oh, that sucks. And when it reopened, I went to check if it was still there and it is not. So I was very sad, but fortunately, yeah there are still pictures online and there's, I have received a bunch of information about it. We were preparing to talk about it. And I was going to probably do a tour about it and talk to visitors about it. But again, that will probably not happen, unless they put this exhibition back up at some point. But so the show is, or was called Mail Art: Break the Rules, This Sh— Must Stop Portfolio. It's a very long title. And so it was, I guess similar to the Correspondance School, it was a campaign or an organized distribution in the late 1960s. So it was put together by two artists named William Copley and Dimitri Petrov. And so basically, the way they framed it is they, they kind of framed this project as not only asking critical questions, but getting active and demand answers and calling forth the spirit of rabble rousing and rebellion. So so it was a subscription-based, type of mail delivery service. And it arrived in the form of a cardboard box containing mass produced prints, photographs, texts, audio recordings, and more, from a variety of artists. So I believe William Copely and Dmitri Petrov, they organized it and different people, I think you can be anyone you can subscribe to this box and they'll send it to you periodically. And it's compiled with works from different artists that's small enough to fit into a small box that can be mailed through the post service. So their intention was to disrupt and bypass the red tape of powerful art institutions as we discussed. So yeah, they deliver the work directly to the subscribers and they saw this as a democratic approach, because they actually paid all the contributing artists a flat fee of a hundred dollars, whether they were a world renowned or up-and-coming, or nobody's ever heard of them, it doesn't matter. They, I'm not sure if they accepted everyone. Like I didn't find information sort of similar to what you said about the other shows, exhibitions that were organized. This one, I don't know if they accepted everyone, but again, even if they did, it was a couple of people, it wasn't like, I don't think they got like a hundred thousand submissions, especially back then. So, it's possible they did. And, or maybe they just, they reached out to artists that they know, that specifically O'm not so sure about, but, yeah, they, they treated everyone equally, which was, I think I would say. This seems to fit the rules that you mentioned earlier, even though, you know, these were a separate group of people.

Quinn: That's really cool. And I especially like the note about how everyone was paid a flat fee for the work that they contributed, 

Betty: Even though it was done by a variety of artists, and I don't think there was specific instructions on exactly what they had to do, except for, you know, the whole rabble-rousing and rebellion sort of philosophy that they probably told the artists.

Quinn: Love to rouse rabbles.

Betty: So, yeah. So, so of course, like the boxes there were full of works that were like satirical some with the political commentary and then also just fun and spontaneous. So an example of, one of the works was by the artist Marsha Herskovitz. And so her contribution is called a portfolio—or her contribution is to, is  portfolio number two, I guess maybe the second mailing they sent. It’s called 10 Collages. So basically it's 10, I think, I think postcards or photographs that are collages. So she kind of like took us a realist approach to her messages and social critiques in a way. So the one work that I really kinda noticed, and, there was also a description like label about this work is there's a picture of a girl sitting in a school desk and then on the upper right hand corner, she stuck another picture, which is a woman tied up in like bondage. And then the there's a text underneath that said “this girl's back is bent until it is uncomfortable. Her lungs are crowded so that she can't breathe well. Her head is tilted so that blood does not flow easily to her brain and she can't think well.” So obviously this message can describe either the girl in the school table and chair or the girl who's been tied up in bondage gear. So, you know, she’s kind of alluding to how these are both the same situations in a really kind of creepy type of way, but you can kind of see what she’s getting at.

Quinn: That's so concerning.

Betty: Yeah. So on a slightly, I guess, a less dark note and a little bit more like amusing and spontaneous. This one I really loved. So this is a work by the artist Robert Watts, it's called Permanent Parking Sticker. So, basically across the 1960s, parking meters across North America had the exact same looking face, like the exact same countdown clock. And so Watts recreated that exact same look, but he, but it's just the sticker and the exact same shape and size as the parking meter clock. So obviously it was mailed out to all these people and you can peel it and stick it on parking meters like wherever you park, basically. So it, the parking attendant probably just walks by and takes a look and you basically have free parking unlimited because it always says like you have 45 minutes left. So I just thought this is hilarious. Cause I'm like, oh my God, this I think really speaks to the whole like rabble-rousing and rebellious nature, but in like just kind of a hilarious way. 

Quinn: This is called direct intervention.

Betty: Yeah. I mean, like, obviously I'm like, you know, it's technically breaking the rules of society, but you know, whatever. Those parking attendants will ticket you after three seconds. So, you know, we need to take something back for ourselves.

Quinn: These are great examples. As you mentioned earlier, like a lot of mail arts sort of petered out after the 1980s. And so, you know, a lot of these are in museums now and this whole like exhibit for the 1960s and all of that stuff, but there has been a little bit of a resurgence late, for no reason at all. So basically, I mean, mail art has continued over the decades of course. There's a place, if you go to mailartprojects.blogspot.com, it sort of compiles all of these calls for mail art projects over the past—it’s up to, it goes back to 2007. Which I think is pretty great. They have been going down over the years, but like there's still dozens every year that at least this website has recorded. And recently, if you Google mail art a lot of very contemporary stuff comes up because a bunch of places sort of like universities and other locations and organizations are doing calls for mail art, and sort of like expressing art from around the country slash around the world, during the pandemic. So for example, Printed Matter Incorporated is doing a window exhibit of mail art during the pandemic. So they did a call for mail art in April and May. A bunch of people sent stuff in and now they are all in the windows of their storefront, which is very cool. So they're of course like visible from the outside, which is the safer place to be. So a very cool sort of incorporation of the mail art exhibit in modern times. University of Michigan is doing one right now, I think. So that is just for people in the Ann Arbor community. But if you happen to be part of the Ann Arbor/UMichigan community, go for that one, I will be very interested to see what that's doing. And then what I thought was really interesting, this actually just ended, which is kind of a bummer cause like, kind would have liked to enter this. This is a sort of twist on this, is they were doing a fundraiser for the US Postal Service, which I'm sure people listening to this are probably aware that there's a whole thing going on with the US Postal Service, because our country's sliding into fascism and we're not allowed to have a postal service. And it’s not… I’m not joking, but I'm not going to think about that too much on this episode at this exact moment. So anyway, there was a fundraiser for the US Postal Service, cause that's a thing we need now in a functioning country. But the whole point was that if you bought a set of stamps that are like $11, I think for the set they wanted you to buy, it could enter you into a drawing for all of this art that would be sent to you through the mail from these sort of established contemporary artists. And so that was really cool. And some of, some of the artists sort of based on mail, some of it is not. But all of them are able to be traveled through the mail with just a normal stamp, which is kind of the whole point of this and have a big range of sort of like postcards to custom envelopes and all of this different stuff. So again, I believe this has closed now. But very cool, very cool and creative way to sort of incorporate activism with this kind of art, which is a match made in heaven in this case because they go together very well.

Betty: Yeah. And even though it has closed, you could still contribute to the US postal service funds I'm sure in other ways.

Quinn: Well, I mean you can buy stamps.

Betty: I mean, stamps are nice, start a stamp collection. So yeah, I think definitely, as we mentioned earlier, this kind of format of like physically sending stuff and, like kind of the slowness of mail art when, you know, you have just way too much time on your hand and am not in a hurry to do anything anytime soon, it becomes a little bit more appealing. And so, yeah, like I've kind of read about this resurgence, you know, over the last few months of people starting campaigns. So I read about this campaign that's also since closed. But it was organized by an artist called Jason Brown and he had a call for mail art called “My View From Home." And so it was basically, like it's very open ended, so it can be, he said it can be real or imaginary basically, you know, send me whatever your interpretation of your view from home is. And so people sent in like all kinds of things. He got a whole bunch of postcards like made from masks, like surgical masks. And then he also got just like all kinds of different, like some people do drawings of their view from home. Some people did like watercolors and some were like super abstract and some more like photographs. So yeah, like it’s a thing that we can do now. And I think he actually, I just looked on the mail art projects blogspot, and I think it, I just noticed, he recently started another call for a mail art project that has to do with like voting and elections, which is something that will be happening in your country and possibly my country too this year. But we'll see again, like I think we mentioned before a lot of mail art is not only about, you know, like opening access so that we don't have to limit to accessing art in art gallery. But it does seem like a lot of it is about like, not only rebellion, but political activism and things like that. So it's kind of a way for everybody to, you know, get their message out there. And especially when we may end up voting by mail, literally, you know, the mail will continue to be a thing. Let’s hope.

Quinn: But yes, for now, it definitely is a very cool tool that's used for art and activism across the decades. And it definitely is a very cool tool that connects us historically with these people who have come before and whose work now exists just out there in the world or in museums. And now we are adding onto that tradition in a very cool way, as people are sort of picking up mail more and more, not only for these uses, but also just to communicate with each other more because the internet is stressful. And we have a lot of people—not everybody—but a lot of people do have more time on their hands than perhaps the average year. And so I've noticed a lot of people writing more letters and creating more things to send through the mail than usual. So that's all very cool. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Pictorial. If you want to find us on Twitter or Instagram, you can do so @PictorialPod, you can also find our show notes at relay.fm/pictorial. And you can find me on Twitter or Instagram @aspiringrobotfm.

Betty: And you can find me on Twitter or Instagram @articulationsV. I'm also on YouTube as ARTiculations. And speaking of YouTube, we also upload these podcast episodes to our Pictorial Podcast YouTube channel where you can listen to the podcast and watch images go by on the screen along the way that we speak.

Quinn: Thanks for listening, art enthusiasts!