Keith Haring

Quinn: Hello and welcome back to Pictorial on Relay FM. I am Quinn Rose and I didn't go to art school, but I learn about art all the time anyway.

Betty: And I'm Betty. I also didn't go to art school, but I very much love learning about art anyway, as well.

Quinn: I just read a book about art heists. The energy in my brain is wild right now. I'm thriving. And that has nothing to do with anything. I just really want to recommend the book Portrait of a Thief to everyone. It has nothing to do with today's topic, but it does just kind of generally have to do with this podcast.

Betty: Pretty much, yeah.

Quinn: Anyway I actually today want to talk about Keith Haring.

Betty: I love Keith Haring. I mean, I probably, I know some stuff about Keith Haring, but I'm sure you'll tell me a lot more. So I'm, I'm very glad we're talking about him today. 

Quinn: Yeah, it is actually June. And so I thought it'd be nice to do, like we never do—we almost never do things that are topical, but I thought it'd be nice to do kind of like a pride month episode, I guess. I don't really even talk about it that much on this show, but I'm very queer. So I thought it’d be very fun to talk about Keith Haring, who is one of the most famous American artists kind of period, but especially in gay American art history, he's like maybe the most famous artist which is really, really cool. And you said you do, you are a fan of Haring's work?

Betty: Yeah. I am, and I feel like I don't even know if I can point back to when I first saw his work because it probably was on somebody's t-shirt but probably the first time I didn't, I didn't know it was Keith Haring and it wasn't until like I got to know him, I would be like, oh, yeah, I feel like I've seen that design somewhere or everywhere. I don't know if I have seen Keith Haring works in person that I can think of. But yeah, again, I feel like, yeah, he is just so famous. He’s just known.

Quinn: He's just sort of in the zeitgeist of popular culture. Which is actually like a huge sort of theme that I want to talk about today. But I'm going to start with talking a little bit about his biography. I actually did a bunch of my typical research online for this, but I also read the Keith Haring Journals, which are these, his actual journals that he kept between the years of 1977, which was when he's like 17, 18 and 1989, just a few months before his death. And so this book—it’s published as a book and also there'll be a link to keithharing.tumblr.com, which is the Keith Haring Foundation posted scans, like hundreds and hundreds of pages of scans of his journals that are just like free on Tumblr, online for anyone to read, which is really amazing.

Betty: I didn't realize that was all available online.

Quinn: Yeah, I just learned about that. But I also just highly recommend—cause I'm terrible at reading handwriting. So I do recommend checking the book out of the library if you are interested in Keith Haring, because we're not even going to be like close to get into all of his thoughts and all the things that he wrote, even specifically just about the art world and the way that money and art intersect. And if you are interested in those topics, which I assume if you're listening to this right now, you are interested in these topics. I highly recommend reading this because it was fascinating, especially so much he wrote in the 70s and 80s could have been written now. And would be like a very timely observation, which just goes to show how little things really have changed.

Betty: I probably have mentioned this video before on this podcast, but I have a video about pop art in my YouTube channel. And I actually don't think I mentioned Keith Haring in that episode, and I'm kind of surprised I didn't about that episode kind of a little bit, or I talk a little bit about kind of the interesting relationship art has with, you know, the commerce world and art and money and how it's like… complicated, basically. And yeah, I think Keith Haring definitely is one of these people who kind of was in that world.

Quinn: Very much so, yeah. So Haring was born in Pennsylvania in 1958 and he actually had like a very direct route towards becoming an artist. His father was an amateur cartoonist. And so he was exposed to drawing at a very early age and started drawing very young, like as a child, and always showed interest and affinity for it. And then as a teenager, this is going to seem like a wild left field turn. He got really involved with the Jesus Movement, which is, I cannot possibly begin to get into what the Jesus Movement is, but it's a, it was an evangelical Christian movement, mostly on like the west coast in the 60s. And this is where the term Jesus Freak comes from. And there was a lot going on there. But the main things that are relevant to Keith Haring's history is one, like his roots in Christianity, which you can see, even in lots of his later work, even way beyond his Jesus Movement years, like he still had a lot of influence from Christianity in different ways. And then, but also part of this is like a strong distrust of mainstream religious practices and like the mainstream church, which is very interesting. So the journals that I read actually start when he’s like, like I said 17, 18, and he's hitchhiking across the US. And boy, people just did anything back then, huh? There were so many serial killers in the 70s and people were still out here hitchhiking like their life depended on it. And it did. But in 1978, he moves to New York City. He's studying at the School of Visual Arts. And very quickly is meeting a ton of other prominent artists who would be coming up with him and like this generation of new American artists, including someone who we have talked about before, Jean-Michel Basquiat, who was one of his good friends.

Betty: Now that I think of it, I did see some Keith Haring works, or maybe one or two in-person, and that was at the Basquiat show we had at the AGO a number of years ago. Like I think there was, there were some collaborations he did with Basquiat and I remember seeing some babies drawn on some stuff.

Quinn: Yeah. That would totally make sense. There's actually several points in his journals where he references Basquiat is his favorite painter. Like he makes sure that even in his private journals, like several times clarifies, like he thinks Basquiat is the best painter working right now, which is really cool. But he pretty quickly developed a distinctive style, which is he would go into subways and there would be unused advertising space that was just black. And he would do these white chalk drawings and very quickly developed this sort of distinctive style around his graffiti art and his symbol of the radiant baby, which we'll talk about a little more in a bit, but even if you don't think you know Keith Haring's work, you probably, if you saw it, you'd be like, oh yeah, no, I've seen something about this. Like, this style seems familiar to me, even if I wouldn't have been able to place the name of the artist, because his work is so widespread and so commercialized. And I don't, even though I almost always mean that word negatively, I don't necessarily mean it negatively here, which is another something we'll get into in a minute, but I don't know. How would you describe his style if someone's not looking at it right now?

Betty: First of all, really colorful and cartoony. Like you mentioned, his dad was a cartoonist and who kind of taught him this, or maybe influenced him in this way. Like he paints a lot of figures in minimalist ways, basically the outline of a person and the head is just a circle and the arms and legs are just very minimal. And they're usually outlined in black strokes and the people are various bright colors. And he has this style where I want to say there's a lot of parallel lines. When there's a figure there's also a lot of lines along them that, that are radiating in the same direction, I guess. And then sometimes it almost looks like a jigsaw puzzle too, with a lot of his shapes interlocking with each other. I would say like a graffiti style. I don't know if that’s a thing. Because yeah, there's no one consistent graffiti style.

Quinn: Well, I would also add, like, it's always two dimensional. Like it's always two dimensional shapes and like you said, very cartoony. And also if I was going to name a specific thing, if you've ever seen an image of like a big red heart and then two sketches of like never, never any facial features. They're always just blank people. Like you said, kind of abstracted human forms with these thick black lines, but it's like a big red heart. And then there are people on either side of it holding it up. I feel like that's one of the images, like Keith Haring images that I see the most, just kind of out and about. It's just everywhere.

Betty: That's like it's like the Keith Haring version of the Banksy with the girl with the red balloon.

Quinn: So he starts developing this style and he gets famous pretty darn quickly. In like the first half of the 80s, he becomes very prominent. And he's prominent most often as a graffiti artist. I also want to take a moment here to recognize Angel Ortiz, who is known, his like—stage name isn't correct, but like artist name is LA II. I had never heard of him before, which sucks because LA II was one of Haring’s closest collaborators. He was only 15 when they met and Haring was nine years older than him, but they always worked together like as equal artists, like, according to all reports, like Haring had so much respect for him and paid him fairly for his work and all this stuff. But he had a lot of contributions to a lot of like Haring's work and the sort of style that he developed, including what were kind of called the, like the fill in squiggles, where like, as you mentioned, between each shape there are lines that are emanating out from the figures and it almost looks like it fits together like a jigsaw puzzle, like that distinctive style of the sort of negative space in between the figures being filled with those squiggles, that was developed by LA II. However, LA II was Puerto Rican and there was pretty much a deliberate campaign to obscure his contributions. After Haring passed away, the Keith Haring Foundation stopped paying LA II for his work. It was really horrible. And even today, like it persists. So few people have heard of him or know of his contributions to this like incredibly famous and distinctive style and work. But there are people who knew about this and who have worked really hard to try to at least somewhat rectify the problem. I read some reports that like, things are still bad between him and the Keith Haring Foundation. Some reports that they have at least started paying him, but it’s not a great situation even today.

Betty: Wow. Yeah. I had never heard of that. Which is a part of the problem. 

Quinn: Exactly. I was reading about this and I was like, oh my God. Yeah, because it just goes to show, even with someone like Haring, where his work is so democratized deliberately through a lot of choices at Haring made. The contribution of someone who like he considered a well-respected collaborator, it could be totally erased when he wasn't around to advocate for him anymore. So just every time I talk about Keith Haring's work, just remember that Ortiz was part of it. But I will continue with Haring's biography now. Through like the second half of the 80s, as far as I can tell this man was just creating work at a rate that was absolutely unhinged. First of all, he exhibited at the Venice Biennale in 1984.

Betty: Oh, cool.

Quinn: Which is very fun. He started getting on the covers of national magazines by 1984 as well. 1984 seemed to be kind of the tipping point of like when he became mega-iconic as an artist, but even then he was very under-recognized by the mainstream art establishment of the US, which he alternated between like pretending didn't bother him and also seeming extremely bitter about in his journals, like specifically the MoMA wouldn't exhibit him and he was really mad about it. But a lot of more mainstream establishment in Europe were a lot more welcoming to his work. And he spent, it seemed like a lot of time, especially in like the second half of the 80s, he spent traveling around Europe, doing murals. He did a lot of murals for places like children's hospitals and lots of places for kids. And he often did those volunteering. Because he absolutely loved kids, spoke often about how people didn't respect kids enough and like understand them. And he was always like doing—like every other page in this journal was him and he's like, yeah, so I did all this work and then all these kids gathered around and then I signed everything they owed and I made drawings for all of them. And like, he was always constantly—for adults too, he was always constantly doing autographs, giving drawings to people, but especially kids, like he would detail “there was this one specific kid who came back and watch me paint this mural every day.” And like, he would talk about this kid, like he was his best friend because he's just, he just thought kids were so great.

Betty: Ah, that's so nice. Yeah. And of course I think kids definitely would love his work cause they're so colorful, but also just fun.

Quinn: Yeah. And another part of it, it's so easy to emulate. He writes a lot about seeing people where like he met some young people who had basically fake Haring posters, whatever. Cause they like made their own and he's like, I love it. Perfect. You did a great job.

Betty: I did actually, I remember reading that—well actually I don't know if you're going to get into this letter, but like I think he tried to open a shop in Japan, but like, it kind of failed because there were just a lot of people selling fakes anyway. 

Quinn: Yeah. Actually, I'm just going to get into that right now. So in 1986, he opened the Pop Shop in New York City. This was the official physical location for Keith Haring merchandise which actually still existed for a while after his death that is now closed, but there is still an official Pop Shop that's an online store. I mean, there's officially licensed Keith Haring merchandise everywhere, because it just is. But if you're also, if you're interested in getting it direct from the source, there is still an online store. At the time that he opened the shop, he was criticized pretty heavily for commercializing his work. But he interpret this as democratizing his work is, as he said, my art came up through the subways. Like my art has always been able to be visible by anyone, and I deliberately want it to be visible to anyone who's walking down the street. And so I want to make this shop where like anyone can buy my work for $5. He did not say this, I’m just sort of paraphrasing his general thoughts into this and synthesizing it to my own words. But the vibe is basically like I would rather everyone in the world be able to buy a cheap t-shirt with my art on it and like have my art exhibited in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, you know, because my art belongs to people and art should belong to people. It shouldn't just belong to people in the art establishment.

Betty: Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I think one thing I do talk about in the pop art episode is that when I worked at the gallery and you know, we had a bunch of pop art pieces, like including Andy Warhols and things like that. And a lot of the question about pop art that comes up with a lot of people is that they're like, oh, this just looks like a very like generic image that, you know, from pop culture, like quote, unquote, “anyone can make that.” And also it's very easily duplicated and it doesn't even have to be the artists themselves who duplicates it. And you know, so then a lot of people are like, then why, so why is this art? And you know, obviously anything could be art, but the other side of that question is in a way, pop art is one movements that that made art more accessible to everyone as more so than any other forms of art, because it's like, it's one thing to be like, oh, I want everyone to see it at an art gallery, but it's another thing for people to be able to, for like everyday average people to be able to consume it. And I think, yeah, it's this interesting dynamic where, you know, people like Keith Haring and Basquiat and a lot of these artists that were kind of on the street and before they were famous they were just painting graffiti on the street. And I feel like people are always going to accuse these artists who become successful of selling out, because it's like, you know, like some point that image, I'm just the poor artist who's like painting graffiti is not going to be true anymore.

Quinn: Yeah, it's interesting because he wrote something about how people accused him of selling out by doing the Pop Shop. But if you wanted to make the most amount of money, he would just do a couple of really high end pieces and sell them to collectors. And that would actually be the easiest way to make a lot of money. And it actually reminds me of John Green and—stick with me here. John Green talks about how he's on a mission to make his signature, like the least valuable signature. Because he signs every single copy of the English first edition print run of his books. And so that means books, with the last couple of books that he's published, books with his signature are more popular, like there are more of them than books without his signature. And sometimes if you go in Barnes and Noble, like the signed edition are cheaper than the unsigned edition. Just sort, it sorta just happens that way with like computer algorithms of like different websites and stuff. And so he's like, this is my mission. And that honestly, when I was reading this journal, it kind of reminded me of that when I was reading about Keith Haring, just like doing drawings for just anybody, because it's so true in a way, like he was like, I'm going to put my art absolutely everywhere. It's really easy for me to make simple line drawings, simple, distinctive style, and I'm going to plaster the world with these and they're not really going to be worth that much. And they really weren't until he died. And now some of them have sold for millions of dollars, which is interesting because it's sort of, it sort of proves that he was right. That if he had made them really exclusive in the first place, obviously not as much because when an artist dies, their work goes up in value at auction, which is very morbid, but that's how it works. But he still probably could have made like a lot more money, at least with a lot less work. Like I'm sure he was making money with this stuff, of course. But he could have put a lot less effort in. 

Betty: Yeah. I think with this type of thing is he really did genuinely or like, from what I know, he genuinely did seem like the type of person who just wanted art to be accessible. He wanted everyone as much as possible to be able to have access to and enjoy art. And I think, you know, that's really nice. And that's what we’re about.

Quinn: Yeah. The only time this really seemed to be a problem to him is in Japan as you brought up. So in the last couple of years of his life he spent a lot of time in Japan trying to set up Pop Shop in Tokyo, and it didn't really work that well. He just happened to be journaling a lot at this time. And so he went really in depth of like, apparently the opening was not good. Like his boyfriend left Japan without telling him, cause they got in that bad of a fight.

Betty: Oh, whoa.

Quinn: But besides that, it just didn't go that well, just because there was so much knockoff Keith Haring merchandise that was already in Japan. And there just wasn't as much of a distinction, I guess, for just like the average person in Tokyo to really care that much whether it came from the Pop Shop official Keith Haring merchandise versus like the knockoff down the street, which like probably is poorer quality, but it doesn't, there's not that much of a distinction and it was already so overrun with his work already that it just wasn't a good environment. And so I'm not sure exactly when or how the Tokyo Pop Shop closed, but it definitely was much less successful than the New York one. And then after many years of just creating art and exhibiting as fast and as frequently as he possibly could, on February 16th, 1990, he died of AIDS related complications in his apartment in Greenwich Village, in New York City. He was 31 years old.

Betty: Wow. So Keith Haring died at the exact age I am now.

Quinn: That's sobering, huh? 

Betty: Yeah, that's really sad.

Quinn: It's very, very sad. It's also, his life was very tragic in a lot of ways. Even besides dying young. A lot of his friends and mentors died before he did, even though he died at the age of 31. Basquiat died very young. Andy Warhol was older than him and was a close mentor of his, but also died. Another one of his closest mentors died right at around the time that Andy Warhol died and he was very severely impacted by them both passing away, especially so close together. His closest friend who he was, he was the godfather of this man's child, died in a car accident only I believe a year before Haring died. It's just really, really lots of sad things. Lots of death in his life. And also of course he was a gay man in the 1980s. And so he wrote a lot about AIDS and HIV and he wrote a lot about knowing he was going to die young. In 1987, a year before he would be diagnosed with AIDS and less than three years before he would die, he wrote, “I don't know if I have five months or five years, but I know my days are numbered.”

Betty: I just don't even know what to say to that.

Quinn: There was such a unique tragedy in his life of being surrounded by people dying young, knowing with almost complete certainty that he was going to die young and not knowing when and then this manifested in absolute obsession with creating art and with creating an artistic legacy as quickly and as prolifically as he could. Like he spent the decade before he died traveling around the world and creating art at a pace that would be unthinkable for most people, because he knew that he wasn't going to have a whole lifetime to do it.

Betty: Yeah. I mean, and I do actually… I think it's still, it's really great that his works like even after this realization, you know, that he was gonna die relatively young and that he didn't have a lot of time left. Like his work, it seems like continued to be like very colorful and bright and just happy and upbeat is the, what I get from his work. Like I feel like Keith Haring's works is probably some of the most like positive feeling works of any artists that I can think of.

Quinn: Yeah. I think part of that comes down to the enduring symbol of the radiant baby, which I alluded to earlier. This was basically his tag, his signature. And it was just an outline of a baby crawling on their hands and knees. And then there were lines that emanated out from them. Get it, it's radiant. And this basically it was because I talked about before, you know, he was, he revered children so much and valued children so much. And also there's definitely, I feel like a little bit of that Christian influence in this here. And the idea of, you know, the baby Jesus is a very strong symbol in Christianity and that comes in there. But yeah, even though a lot of his work… It feels like most of his work, or at least most of his most enduring work is either the deeply political distraught messaging or all of the work that he did centered around children and innocence and youth that's like all summed up by this radiant baby symbol. The duality of man.

Betty: Yeah. And is it, so you mentioned that it's like his signature, did he actually use all like, or consistently used a baby to like, for it to be like his actual signature to sign works?

Quinn: I'm not sure about that, but he used it as his graffiti tag from very early in his career as a graffiti artist. And yes I’m sorry to kind of have to lead this episode into a very dark place. But unfortunately his life led to a very dark place because he not only died young. He died of a plague that was left to afflict people with no help or acknowledgement for many years. And it is deeply political. There are so many horrific crimes that the US government has to answer for, but this is one of them. And it killed a whole generation. And so now I would like to direct everybody's attention to Keith Haring's design on the AIDS epidemic. No, but this is if you would like to check out the link for the ignorance equals fear artwork.

Betty: I am looking at an artwork that has the kind of symbolic two dimensional figures. There's three figures in the middle they’re in yellow outlined in the black outline stroke. And they're on an orange background with these blue banners at the top and bottom and the figures have these like kind of radiating lines, but they're all, they all have their hands on their head. And they seem to be really stressed out or fearful. There’s Xs on their chests. And the top says ignorance equals fear. And the bottom says silence equals death, pink triangle, fight aids, act up.

Quinn: So this poster is playing on the idea of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, but condemning the deliberate ignorance of what people were doing in the 80s of refusing to see or hear or speak about AIDS. And that's why we get ignorance equals fear, silence equals death. This was painted in 1989, which means it would have been after Haring was diagnosed with AIDS himself. This certainly was not the beginning of his AIDS activism, but this is one of the most iconic images that he ever made about AIDS. This is one of the most enduring examples of what I meant for his more serious side of his work.

Betty: I certainly think it is very direct and, and powerful and again, like his iconic, like very intense colors, it makes you pay attention to this message. 

Quinn: Oh, and another connection to the Venice Biennale episode, you spoke about a controversial work that was done by the artist collective Gran Fury, who also created the silence = death pink triangle poster, which became so prolific as a symbol of aids activism, that Haring has also used it here. So that is leading back to that work.

Betty: Podcast crossovers, or callbacks.

Quinn: We're creating a whole web of artworks. And then before we get to the conclusion section of the episode, I want to show you one more artwork here. And this is Crack as Whack. Talk about slogans.

Betty: Yeah, for sure. So it looks to be a drawing that's on a wall. It's very big. The background is completely red and the drawing is in like black strokes. And it says very big crack is—it actually kinda looks like it says crack whack with is on top, but yeah, crack is whack. It says NYC 1986 on the top corner. And the bottom seems to be a bunch of people, a bunch of the figures, they're like overlapping each other and on top of each other, I think one has like a dollar bill or something. And then there's a, there's like a skull or a very abstract skull underneath the crack word. So presumably this is about crack the drug and how it is quite whack.

Quinn: The painting that you just described is actually the second version of this mural. And it is the version that currently exists. The original version was done in New York City in 1986. So this is well into Haring being an incredibly famous international artist, right?. But he was still into graffiti and he still sometimes would just go do murals where he did not have permission to do murals, including this one. He did not have permission for this. This was not a commissioned mural. He did it on the wall of an abandoned handball court and he was arrested for vandalism and the New York City police was like, you are going to jail. And then there was, but there was so much media coverage of it that he ended up pleading guilty to a reduced charge and just paying a fine, and then it was painted over. But then the actual, like the parks department painted over it, but then they commissioned him to paint the mural and actually gave him full permission. And he repainted the original site.

Betty: This is very similar to another work in Toronto. It's also this really famous graffiti piece. There’s a tunnel that you can see off of one of the highways that was just like this regular gray tunnel, and an artist named BC Johnson in the 70s painted just a big rainbow on it. And again, it's north of our LGBTQ village. So a lot of people love this rainbow, but anyway, it was illegal. And the artist I think was also arrested, don't think he was charged. But again, it was painted over, or I think it was destroyed or came off over time. And he was also commissioned like decades later to come back and repaint it. 

Quinn: Wow. Well, I'm glad he got commissioned later. This was a much faster turnaround.

Betty: Yeah, that's the thing. I think BC Johnson, it took something like 20 years for them to be like, hey, you know the thing we arrested you for a long time ago? Well, those were different people. So why don't you come back and fix this? 

Quinn: This obviously is another deeply political piece of art. The 80s, as well as being the worst time in the AIDS epidemic in the US also a terrible horrific time for the crack epidemic in the US. But instead of the government ignoring it completely, they decided to go to war against low-income communities over it and just make everything horrifically worse. We cannot get into the drug policy of the US but suffice it to say Haring had some people who are close in his life who were affected by crack cocaine. And he saw the negative effects of it. And he was also very frustrated by the government's failure to do anything actually effective in combating the spread of crack cocaine. And so, you know, this was his, this was a statement that he made about it. Crack is whack. You're not wrong.

Betty: I think similar to the other one about AIDS, this is very direct and overt. And I, you know I think in a way you kind of have to be, because in both cases, he's calling out that there is an epidemic that the government pretty much is just ignoring and turning a blind eye to, or making it worse. And if you don't directly say this is a problem, like people are not going to know that it's a problem.

Quinn: Yeah. Of all of the things that Haring's work is, subtle is not one of them. It is all—we keep coming back to the idea of it being very cartoony. It is so cartoony and it also is so direct. Every time he uses words in his work, it is extremely clear what he means. And he is not going to let something get misinterpreted. I mean, I think this almost goes back to what he's talking about, like the idea of elitism in art spaces, where he's like, you don't have to be, you don't have to have studied art history for 20 years to understand my work. I'm telling you what I'm saying. You're, you're going to understand it.

Betty: Yeah. And I think that just, that's a part of his push for wanting art to be accessible to as many people as possible.

Quinn: There is so much more I feel like I could say about Haring. Once again, I would like to recommend his book to anyone who is interested in him because I learned so much, I didn't even begin to get into, like, he was so interested in hieroglyphics and it really, the idea of like, iconography in language and images were really interconnected for him, which I think explains a lot about his personal style. It also he had so many interesting thoughts about technology and the way that like technology was going to affect people in art, which is more true today than it ever was. Like, I feel like he really saw the writing on the wall there in an interesting way. But the time has come for this episode to come to an end. So I would just like to end this with a beautiful quote that I really loved from his journal. And that is “art is for everybody. To think that they, the public, do not appreciate art because they don't understand it, and to continue to make art that they don't understand and therefore become alienated from may mean that the artist is the one who doesn't understand or appreciate art, and is thriving in this self-proclaimed knowledge of art that is actually BS.”

Betty: Love it.

Quinn: I love that. He said, oh, people don't understand your art… because you're bad at it? Is that why? Yeah. What, what have we learned today, Betty? [both laugh]

Betty: This is like, is this like a children's cartoon? What do we learn from this episode? 

Quinn: We should start doing wrap-ups. We should start doing, what did we learn today? What was your favorite thing you learned today in class?

Betty: Yeah, I learned that Angel Ortiz or LA II, is someone who should, should be known and should be respected and paid. And that is a thing that I think I will try to learn more about.

Quinn: I actually think that is the perfect place to leave this episode of reminding us of the contributions of Angel Ortiz, who was erased. And that sucks. And I hope that everybody learns some fun things on today's episode of Pictorial. I'm decided to host this like a children's show now. 

Betty: In the spirit of Keith Haring, this episode has become a children's cartoon.

Quinn: I think you're all radiant babies. You can find our show notes at relay.fm/pictorial, or you can follow us on Twitter or Instagram @pictorialpod. You also follow me on Instagram @aspiringrobotfm, and also I'm active on TikTok now for some reason, also @aspiringrobotfm.

Betty: And also you can find me on Twitter or Instagram at articulationsv, and I am also on YouTube as ARTiculations because I am old and not with the TikTok crowd yet. And speaking of YouTube, we also have a YouTube channel for Pictorial Podcast where we will upload video versions of our audio episodes at some point when I get to it. And so for this episode, when it comes out, you will see some very colorful babies and other things.

Quinn: Thanks for listening, art enthusiasts!